Interview with Lewis Vipond - July 1998 This interview was conducted by Larry T. Power after a Brooklin Redmen Major Lacrosse game against Akwesasne Thunder on July 11, 1998 Larry: You are a member of one of the first lacrosse families in Brooklin for as far back as I can remember. Where did the family originate and when did they settle in Brooklin? Can you tell me a bit about the family? Lewis: My great granfather, my dad, and his father, and his father that would be the third one. They came from England and settled in Raglan, Ontario. I think it was in 1824. Settled and cleared the land in Raglan we had a hundred acres just east of Raglan between the townline and the ninth concession. Then in 1881, my grandfather which was John Vipond bought the farm up where we lived in Brooklin. That is were the subdivision is now 220 acres there. That was the Vipond farm called Meadowcrest. My Dad farmed it from 1926 Myron Vipond my father and he sold the farm in 1954. Nine children in the family Luther and Lewis the twins are the oldest. Then there were Bill , Tim, Doug and Don and three sisters. Mike's mom is the third sister, Marjorie. Luther and Lewis then Helen, then there was Bill, then there was Martha, Taffy Main's wife. Taffy Main used to play hockey in Whitby and was quite a ball player. and then Marjorie, Mike's mother, born in 1920. By 1954 Luther was home on the farm after he came back from overseas and that was the only one of the family that was home then, we were all gone. He was a farmer and farmed that land. After his old man sold the farm, they built on the bottom 68 acres of the farm leaving 130 acres. Neil Grandy is working it now. Luther worked that farm from 54 to 82. Neil is Charlie's Dad. The next farm is ours. They are starting to build houses on the Grandy farm now. Larry: What is your earliest memory of lacrosse being played in Brooklin? They had pretty good intermediate teams in Brooklin in the 50's. Could you tell me a bit about those teams and the players who played on the teams in those years? Also, when and how the Luther Vipond Memorial Arena was built and the changes made to the Arena in those years? Lewis: 1930. We had kind of a field lacrosse team - 1930 and 1931. No, I was not on the team, I was only 16 at the time. We played in the Bush League, that was when we first started to play lacrosse, in Brooklin, 1930, 1932, 1933. It was a Bush League in 34. It was all Bush League then. In 1935 we entered the OLA Intermediate that is when we started. I was playing then. Well, I played on all those Bush League teams. 1932 I was playing in my first year. It was field then. 1935 was Box. Box came in 32 and we started to play Box. we Played in a Bush League. We had Harmony, Port Perry, Claremont, Red Wing Orchards. Norm Irving of Red Wing Orchards had a box over there. And they had a Bush League. That was what it was. Then in 1936, 37, and 38, I played in Brooklin we played intermediate. In 39 I was in Sudbury and did not play. 1940, 41 we played in Brooklin came back from Sudbury. I worked for Sam McLaughlin on the Windfields Farm for 14 months. I drove the tractor. I was the Tractor Man. My brother Bill was the other guy he drove the other tractor. Sam had a lot of Land there about 400 to 500 acres. 41, to 49 no lacrosse the war years. No lacrosse in Brooklin. The arena was opened 1 Jan. 1949. I think they started a team in 1949 if not mistaken, definitely in 1950. The arena was built in late 48 opened in 49. At the time in 49, Bill was working at GM, Luther was on the farm. GM had a parts department had a pretty good hockey team. So we played the Markham Millionaires. They had just won the Intermediate championship in Ontario - on opening night. We beat them 3-2. Was in the month of January. I came down Toronto to play hockey for Brooklin. Bill and Luther played on that team too. We had 3 lines, about 15 players. They had a team in 50 I know for sure. But I think they started in summer of 1949. Mike might know. Mike was only 7 years old. I don't think he'd remember. Intermediate Lacrosse. 51. 52. 53. 54. 55 I think. Brooklin all those years won the Intermediate championship. Pretty every one of these years. They won them damn near every year. Then, I don't remember what happened in 56 and 57 but in 59 and 60. Brooklin won the Senior B championship the two years. Because I referred. The last game I referred was in Brooklin in 1959 in October. Some players who played in 51 and 55. Donnie Craggs played, his brother Rusty, Donald played and Doug played and Adrian Kim played some in them years in the 50s. Luther played in 1953 and Bill played to 53. I was playing in Toronto. If you see Donnie Craggs or some of those guys, they could confirm exactly between 51 and 55 but I know they won the championship in 53, 54 and 55. Bill coached in them years. I don't remember what in hell I still think they played Intermediate in 56, 57, and 58. Well one of those guys should know but I wasn't sure I was referring then. They had a dirt floor till 1962. I think it was 1962 they put in the cement floor. They put the artificial ice in 1962. They named the arena when Luther died in 82. It used to be called Brooklin Memorial arena. Changed it when Luther passed away on May 23, 1982. They used the lumber from the munitions plant in Ajax That was were they got a lot of the lumber. Ajax filled the shells It was a big plant in Ajax - thousdands worked there. Everybody in Brooklin worked in Ajax during the war. Larry: Your career? Lewis: I left Brooklin in 38. I went to Sudbury to play hockey. I went to Sudbury to play hockey. Senior hockey. They had won the Allan Cup the year before. That was the highest hockey there was. I played with Vachon, Shields, Rosini - Rosini played for Boston, Nicholson, Nweboldt, Hoggrath. These were all senior hockey players. Larry: But I never heard of them. Lewis: That's because they're senior players in 1938. You, Larry You Larry weren't even thought of. We played against Frood Mine,it was a Nickle Belt League. Lot played pro hockey. Rosini made the NHL, Bingo Kampman, Murph Chamberlain. Bingo and Murph played for Frood when they won the Allan Cup in 36. Murph Chamberlain played pro. Christ that Roy Hexamar was a hell of a good hockey player, he played minor pro hockey. There was a guy who played for Frood Mine, his name was Jim Dewey who could have played pro hochey any day right today. He was a great hockey player but he had a big job with Inco. This Dewey was a hell of a hockey player. Frankie Lavine and Framkie Graham were the Pony Express, they had played with Halifax in 1935 and won one Allan Cup and Frood won it in 1936. Frood won it in 1939. I played only one year in Sudbury. We had this Nickle Belt league, Copper Cliff, Frood Mine, just outside of Sudbury. Frood Mine is still going, also Creighton Mine. The mines all had teams including Sudbury. Four team league. Frood Mine won it (the league). Played in the Allan Cup didn't win it. Won in 1936. Then a guy stole a guy's cheque and Christ they cut the league out right there. That was in 38. Well he got a guy's cheque and also he was supposed to be working and the big shot from Inco came in. He was sitting in a beer parlor. That was the end of the league. They had sort of senior league there. A lot of the players went to Kirkland Lake and played for the Kirkland Lake Blue Devils in 1940 when they won the Allan Cup. Larry: You were saying they were playing for "food". Lewis: No, Frood - F R O O D. Larry: The guy that stole the cheque, they cut his leg off. Lewis: No, No, they cut the league out. I went to Toronto in the fall of 1941. 40 and 41 I came back home and played for Brooklin. In fall of 41 went to Toronto in September and 1942 played for the Etobicoke Indians, 1943 Toronto Lakeshores, 1944 Toronto Lakeshore 1945 went overseas did not play any lacrosse. 46 played for Toronto Lakeshore again but played out of Barrie. 47 and 48 played for Weston. That's it. That's my whole career. I was 34 years old in September of that year. I played at 190 pounds that last year, but my best weight was 180, 5'9", shoot right. See I could score five goals a game in this league now. Larry: Yeah, but you didn't back then. I saw your stats. Lewis: The first game in Weston we played Brampton, 40 minutes overtime and I scored the first three goals of the game. Larry: Got the first three and didn't get any more after that. Lewis: Is that not enough, I am a defenseman, not a forward. I had a hell of a good underhand shot. I could really skim the ball right along the floor, and I knew were it was going too. There is nobody that can shoot an underhand shot today, there isn't a kid that can shoot an underhand shot. Johnny (Fusco) can shoot a bit of one. Jim McNulty was one of the best underhand shots that I ever seen. One of the best, he was good. There was a lot of guys who could shoot, underhand shots but you had to practice and practice it. Larry: Did you actually play against McNulty because he played way up in the 60's. Luther: McNulty played in 51, 52, 53 when I was referring. Larry: Time you got the three goals in one game for Weston, was that 47 or 48? Lewis: 48, last year. Hell, I scored three goals against Ray Mortimer one night in Mimico in 47. I can remmeber those three goals. Larry: How many hat tricks have you had in your life? Lewis: I had two. I had lots of hat tricks playing intermediate So I remember those two. I can always remember that. Shot the ball one time just over centre and Christ beat Mortimer.Mortimer was an engineer in the railroad. Played hockey when I came back to Toronto. Played in the THL Major. There was lots of pro hockey players in that league, boy. It ceased in 1947. Played from 41 to 45. Played a little bit in 45 when I was in the army on the weekends. I played with the Army team, I played with Tip Tops and I played with the Red Indians on the weekends. That didn't finish my hockey career either. In '48 I played for Q and L. We had a team in Toronto, Sr. B. We played the Ontario championship and we were beaten by Sarnia in the final games 4-2 and I think it was 6-3. Two out of three. That was Sr.B, Ontario final. And in 1949 I played in the ??????. They has a merchantile league in Revina????. They tore down the old arena. The last year I played real good hockey. I was 35 then. Larry: You never played in the Mann Cup, did you? You never played on a decent team, did you? Lewis: Yeah, I played for the '43 championships of Ontario but Mimico and Brampton beat us. In '43, played in the Provincial finals, just like the Major finals here. That was Sr.A. That was top notch lacrosse. I was playing for Lakeshore. I started refereeing in 1949. I refereed to 1958. I refereed in six Mann Cups., '52, '54, '56, six Mann Cup games. I refereed at least 800 games. I refereed 92 in one year. in 1954 I think it was, I got paid $12.00 a game and .15 a mile and $15.00 for the finals. We weren't big paid men in those days. I refereed Jr. and sure, I did the Minto Cup in 1955 and in 1953. I went to Winnipeg to referee the finals in the Minto Cup with Winnipeg playing Vancouver in 1955, and then we came back to Long Branch and played the Minto Cup here.Went five games and Long Branch won. I think that was most of my career. I did coach a little bit. I coached in 59 in Long Branch the Senior team. After 59 they became Port Credit. They're Senior A. Yeah just like the Majors now. In 1961 I was the coach of the Redmen. I coached the Mimico Juniors in 1964 and I beat Bishop when he had that good team. In Mimico. 8-5 we beat them. Quit as the first coach of Broooklin for business reasons. I did not last the season. I was manager of the parts department. I was living in Etobicoke. Never coached junior until 1964 that was the last year I coached and then I retired. Graham Gair, Ross Othan, Johnny Dale, Davey O'Brien. Bishop's team won that year but I beat them one game. That was something. You might have that right in that scrap book. That was my coaching carreer. Now I am retired. Main spectatator for the Brooklin Redmen. Where the hell is my second beer, there? Merv is that my second beer over there? Larry: What was your career highlight as a player and as a ref and the one thing that stands out in your memory the most as a player and as a ref? Lewis: Highlight of referring would be the Mann Cups, that's all. There's not other things than that. As a player, the hat tricks and playing in the provincial championship in 1943. See in 1940 and 41, Brooklin played Senior B you know. Owen Sound beat us both years. We lost to Owen Sound. In 1936, I was playing hockey for Whitby and we went to the provincial intermediate championship and got beat by Durham that year. Christ I could go on. I started playing OHA Junior in 1933. I did play a lot of hockey. That was my first game. The most interesting in lacrosse was in 1985 when Brooklin won the Mann Cup in New Westminister. The score was 5-4. The goal tender knocked in the fifth goal. The goalie was Quinlan. I was out there every year 85, 87, 89. I was out there in 65 too. I was with my brothers. I think the best lacrosse team of all time was the 1990 Brooklin Redmen. Was one of the best lacrosse teams in a long time. They had both Gaits, Marachek, Kent Douglas's kid. That was a good lacrosse team. I told a lot people that. Larry: Who were the top three players who you have ever seen play the game? Lewis: It's hard. Bill Isaacs, Kenny Dixon. He's only 72 years old. Oh Christ, there's Ike Hildebrand. There's all kinds of them. If I took time and figured it out I could give you a better list. I did play with Reggie Hamilton, Reese Thompson, and Annis Stukus. They all played with us. We had a big team there, boy. 1943. Played against Bill Isaacs. Dixon played against me on Mimico, Archie Dixon, Jack Williams. Donnie McPhail was one of the toughest guys I ever played lacrosse against. He could really fight. Oh shit, I think he would take Scotty McMichael. He was a tough boy and he was a damn good lacrosse player, too. Tough as nails. Christ, I can remember Luther and him having a fight in Barrie and I tell you it was a fight. It wasn't just a little punching out. Luther played with me in 1946. I was a more finished player than Luther. Luther was tough as nails. Christ, could he fight. I bet you a quarter he could knock some of these guys out in about one minute. I seen him knock two or three guys colder than a cucumber. Larry: You guys are twins. Did you ever have any fights against each other? Lewis: We got along pretty good. I'd get a black eye for sure. He was a tough cookie. Bill was three years younger. He was no fighter. He couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. He was tough, though. He was 210 pounds, not too tall, 5'8" and really built. We were all solid. Take young Doug, he's solid. Doug was a good athlete. If he could skate as well as I could skate, I was a good skater, I has a lot of speed. Doug could handle the puck, throw a pass as accurate as anybody I've seen. He played for Brooklin in 64 and 65 when they won. Doug was a good athlete. The Gait boys, I think they're wonderful lacrosse players. I would say that there were lot better stickhandlers and goal scorers right after the war, before the war and in the 50s. A lot of good lacrosse players, you know they could really play. I think they're doing a little better this year. I see the checking is very much better this year than it was last year. Whether it is the coaching or not. They are better checkers. You see Pete was a hell of good defense man in lacrosse, you couldn't beat him. He could really whoosh. He was strong , big. You see Pete played at about 180 pounds. He's not tall but he is big (Lewis's nephew, Peter, coach of the Brooklin Redmen). And all the teams are playing defensively. All the teams the last years have been chicken shit as far as defence goes. But they're hitting harder mow. You see a few guys went down. I used to really clamp down when some son of a bitch run in to me and knock me flat and the ball was going over. You know were he went? To the penalty box because I hated that. Call interference, it's hard to call interferemce, very hard, very hard. When you get in the 15 foot circle, you just can't call it. You got to allow the defense guy to have a little leeway. I don't understand the referees today. I saw plays out here where two guys were checking, they were both fighting for the ball, and they blew the bloody whistle and give it to one guy. How in the hell can you do that when there are only two guys involved. If the third guy is involved it's interference, you see. Larry: Did you have any favorite players? Lewis: Well, I had the Gairs, Norman Gair, he's dead now. I tell you another guy, Gordon Gair, he's still alive who is a hell of a lacrosse player. There's Jack and Toad Gair. I don't know what the hell his first name was. We always called him Toad. Norman went to the Olympics in 1932 with the Canadian Olympic team for lacrosse. Norman was good but his brother, Gord, was a great lacrosse player. Won the senior championship. He could shoot with both hands. Gord was better than Jack. Toad was a good steady lacrosse player, he wasn't a star like Gord. Graham Gair was the son of Gord Gair. Editor's note: There was still more to the tape, but Mr.Bernhard and I were just too worn out to finish it. We'll get it for the next edition of the BIBLE OF LACROSSE.